Curse

Chthon · Dec 18, 2009, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Gah! Guru ate my post. Short version since I'm too lazy to do it all over:

1. Hard task. Requires lots of functionality changes and allowing, even embracing, secondary abuse.

2. Remove recharge from WY! AND remove armor cap in PvE.

WY! was a decent skill back when 100% uptime was easy and paragons got free energy from it.

No other +armor skill is ever going to see play (except on hero bars) so long as SY! exists and the armor cap exists too. Since SY! is apparently here to stay (we can discuss whether that's good or bad elsewhere), it follows that the armor cap should go.

3. Change Soldier's Strike to 1/2 sec activation.

Make dervishes happy.

4. Change Soldier's Speed to 25% IAS (not IMS), 8-10 sec duration at 8 tactics, recharge same as duration at 8 tactics.

The idea is a universal IAS with about the same energy load as Frenzy and a different, but equally annoying, drawback: only 25% speed bonus, plus the shout requirement, plus an attribute investment.

Alternatively, fix the duration and recharge at 8-10 sec and scale the IAS amount 15...33% based on tactics.

4.5. Change Soldier's Stance to IMS+IAS to keep the elite version better than the non-elite version.

5. Change one of the bad shouts (To the Limit?) to this: "cost: 4A; For 5 sec, the next attack by each ally in earshot does +8...15 damage."

A distributed damage skill along the lines of Anthem of Flame or a very short-lived EBSoH.

6. Block Stances probably can't be saved because tank-and-spank is already dying. If you'd like to try, greatly increase the durations and cut back on the ends-on conditions so that (a) the energy load is manageable, and (b) 2 stances are enough to maintain constant coverage. (Maybe even 1 stance for constant coverage given the need to compete with Conviction and Critical Defenses.)

7. Don't buff HealSig again, please. The last 2 times didn't draw anyone into tactics. Doing it again won't draw people and only makes certain monsters even more imbalanced.

Reverend Dr · Dec 19, 2009, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Without a buff to tactics clearly warriors will never be a viable profession in either pve or pvp

Winterclaw · Dec 19, 2009, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Without a buff to tactics clearly warriors will never be a viable profession in either pve or pvp

*sarcasm detectors going off*

1. I'm against aggro management effects being added to tactics, it is a PvE effect and needs to be solely done in pve skills.
2. All warrior shields should be able to be used if you have the points in either tactics or strength, as should para shields.
3. Skills prone to abuse by secondary classes need to be linked to str in some manner. Either they need to boost the skills' effects or reduce skill penalties.
4. I'm partly towards merging all tactics skills into strength.

Skill specific thoughts:
"None Shall Pass" - needs to be moved into general or given a boost from points in tactics.
"Retreat" - needs to buff AL while in effect.
'For Greater Justice" - Needs to be moved into tactics and have it's length determined by points in tactics. I'm thinking 10 points would be a 20 second duration.
Riposte and Deadly Riposte - need to be moved into swords.
Deflect Arrows - no IMS, no IAS, no attacking... yeah let's stop warriors from doing what they do best to block a few arrows.
Distracting blow - move into tactics and give it a little bit of damage if you have points in the line.
[b]Flurry[b] - move into tactics and have a duration increase based on points.
Glads Defense - subpar to flashing blades.
Protectors Defense - Yeah let's keep everyone clumped together for a good AoE and stop squishies from kiting. Most people wouldn't even notice it being used on them by the time they moved again... it's hard enough to keep them in an earth ward. Herding cats is easier than keeping the average player from moving (unless he's in an AoE in which case he'll suddenly stop).
Soldiers skills - no reliable warrior self shout since WY was nerfed... bloody paragons.
thrill of victory - pointless in the current state. Needs to give health back again or ade gain.
ViM - can't use with evicerate, can't use with crip gash, can't use the 4 great warrior skills, and warriors aren't usually supposed to be self-healing much less devote an elite to it. And it has a slow recharge for a self-heal.
WY - needs de-nerfing. I haven't run tactics since this was nerfed.

draxynnic · Dec 19, 2009, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Nerf SF, buff Tactics. I smell trouble :'D

Nerf SF, buff Tactics so that if you really want a tank, the warrior and assassin are equally good choices?

Reverend Dr · Dec 19, 2009, 02:53 AM // 02:53

I really don't have a problem buffing underused skills and lines, provided that the game was balanced to begin with. Less skills makes balance easier and the large groups of underpowered skills are effectively less skills. Thinking that buffing skills or skill lines will make the game balance better is too absurd to warrant a response.

Hugh Manatee · Dec 19, 2009, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Deflect Arrows should function like a shorter duration, more damaging whirling defense or sliver armor, like for each arrow blocked deals 9, 18,25 piercing damage to adjacent foes.

Protector's defense could be defy pain light, flat damage reduction in a skill(not a stance), or maybe just widen the AoE to nearby and remove the "ends if you move" clause.

Giga_Gaia · Dec 19, 2009, 04:02 AM // 04:02

How about this - since we all know that SY! is here to stay, why not tone it down to something similar to "For_Elona!". That way WY! wouldn't be completely overshadowed since the +armor bonus would be the same; except it won't take up an extra PvE slot. Or just change WY! to a PvE version of FE? Although that would make WY! a descent alternative, I'm afraid it would still be pretty pointless if SY itself isn't changed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend DR

I really don't have a problem buffing underused skills and lines, provided that the game was balanced to begin with. Less skills makes balance easier and the large groups of underpowered skills are effectively less skills. Thinking that buffing skills or skill lines will make the game balance better is too absurd to warrant a response.

While I do agree with what you're saying, I also think that balance at this point in time, is no longer what the Live Team is looking for. Instead it would be easier to keep players interested by giving them new things to experiment with. Hopefully they can make the tactics line useable again without going overboard.

cellardweller · Dec 21, 2009, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Deleting Save Yourselves would be the first thing they need to do to "fix" the party defence skills.

Self defence stances are irrelevant for warriors because if you're using them then you're not using flail/enraging charge.

jesh · Jan 02, 2010, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

Self defence stances are irrelevant for warriors because if you're using them then you're not using flail/enraging charge.

QFT. The new balancing needs to take this into account. You won't replace flail/frenzy and enraging charge/rush. Don't even try. Make it work somehow.
Lower energy costs to 1 or even nothing, like a signet. And lose the self defense part. Tactics is worthless as is, so just redo it.

My personal idea is to change all the useless tactics stances to useful things that have absolutely nothing to do with defensiveness.
Ponder this.
If you ask anyone who plays a warrior what their job is in GW, what will they reply?

"TO SMASH FACE."

Warriors are Guild War's weapons masters, excelling in their chosen weapon above all other classes. Tactics isn't necessarily defined as blocking stuff like a -----. It can also mean skill with a weapon.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Deflect Arrows: 5e, 20 recharge

For 1..7..10 seconds, use your weapon to return arrows to their source. You take 50..25..15 damage for each arrow returned.

Riposte: 4 adrenaline
For 1..2..3 seconds, if your attack is blocked, that foe takes 20..80..100 damage.

Deadly Riposte: 10 energy, 15 recharge
For 1..2..3 seconds, if your attack is blocked, that foe takes 20..80..100 damage and sustains a deep wound.

Thrill of Victory: 1e, 1/4 second cast time, 5 recharge
This attack deals -32..45..60 damage if you have more health than that foe. 50% failure with Tactics less than 6.

Disciplined Stance: 5e,10 recharge

Your next attack also hits adjacent foes and deals -10..10..15 more damage. 50% failure with Tactics less than 6. This stance ends after you hit.

Soldier's Strike: 1e, 5 recharge

Your next attack deals +1..20..30 damage and is easily interrupted. This stands ends after you hit.

Soldier's Defense: 5e, 15 recharge

Stance: For 0..3..6 seconds, each time your nearest ally is attacked, you teleport to the attacker's location and deal +0..10..20 damage. 75% chance of failure with Tactics of less than 6.(This stance cannot be used to target the same ally by more than 1 warrior)

Defensive Stance: 1e, 10 recharge

For 0..3..5 seconds, your nearest ally takes damage according to your armor configuration. Damage taken this way is reduced by 1..6..10.

Soldier's Speed: 5e, 25 recharge

Skill: For 1..10..15 seconds, you move 10% faster. This skill stacks with all other skills. When this skill ends, you are healed for 0..80..120 health.

Shield Stance: 1e, 10 recharge

On your next melee attack, use your shield to bash the enemy and deal damage equal to the shield's AL +0..8..16. (This is a separate packet of damage and can be blocked)

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

5. Change Soldier's Stance to IMS+IAS to keep the elite version better than the non-elite version.

I think one of the major problems with balancing is that we get little stuff like this, that, while it's nice, no one really gives a ---- about. If you're going to buff an elite, make it worth using.

Soldier's Stance: 5e, 10 recharge

For 1..7..9 seconds, you attack 15% faster and deal +15 damage. When this stance ends, adjacent foes are inflicted with the Deep Wound status. This stance stacks with all other skills. (including other stances and IMS skills)

If a warrior is giving up their elite, that means they're giving up their killing ability. When was the last time anyone used an elite that wasn't an attack skill? Especially a TACTICS elite?
Any other warrior elite needs to make up for this in some way.

AND.. here goes nothing..

Healing Signet: 0 cast time, 5 recharge
40..80..90 health. For 3 seconds, hexes and conditions that target you have a 5..10..25% chance to fail. You are healed for 40..80..90 health when this skill ends.